Algemeen Hardcore Topic

Dames en heren, welkom in het 'Algemeen Hardcore Topic', waar vriend en vijand kunnen discussiëren over de nieuwste feitjes, roddels, releases en feesten in de hardcore.

Mocht je een hater zijn, fan van Volendamse hits of de gouden platen van Scooter dan verwijzen we je graag naar de exit knop.

Game On!

Uitspraak van DirkJan op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 17:15:

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Als dit meteen (duidelijk) verteld was,

zo was het toch al verteld?
tenminnste zo kwam het tot mij over?
vind het alsnog erg lang duren..

komt toch alleen maar kut muziek uit italie.

Ondertussen geeft iedereen die netjes betaald voor zijn muziek zijn geld uit aan labels die wel opschieten met releases

En het overige volk gaat draaien met youtube rips

Als iemand echt wil rippen, ript diegene het toch net zo hard van youtube of trekt het gewoon uit de HC Italia podcast....

Uitspraak van Krauser op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 16:52:

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but now you can listen to it in good quality on our YouTube channel

Nee, daar word je vrolijk van..
Er komen niet eens meer vinyls uit, dan was het logisch geweest als het even duurde. Nu totaal niet..

-edit: Die Russen hebben maar een klein stukje nodig, die bouwen dan zelf wel de tracks verder

Uitspraak van verwijderd op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 12:18:

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elaborating a little more on your point in question.... "the hardest" is a crappy track. I'll have the T-Factor track anyday.

Yes, i agree and sincerely of the last traxtorm "releases" i only like the Aof - God's fury one, but the point is that is ridicolous that the people have to wait 4 months for a digital release..but they will see that this policy surely doesn't pay..also because when a track after 4 months is released is already "old", and i really hope people WON'T buy The Hardest and their future releases in digital shops..so maybe they will understand this stupid choice they made... i find it really stupid to announce the release of one or two tracks,4 months before... and talking about Mad dog's "album", i think it's one of the biggest fools for the people who bought it and will have to pay AGAIN, when the tracks will be out..

but you know, where there is to fool someone,italians are number one in this.... and i'm saying it (unfortunately) as italian..

Uitspraak van Dark Byte op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 18:17:

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En het overige volk gaat draaien met youtube rips

Uitspraak van The Insurgent op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 18:27:

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Die Russen hebben maar een klein stukje nodig, die bouwen dan zelf wel de tracks verder

In Sovjet Russia track makes- laat ook maar.

Uitspraak van Krauser op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 16:52:

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Often, in the past, the time between the completion of one of the tracks and the full record was really long. Many times it happened that un-authorized, lo-quality recordings of DJ sets containing unreleased tracks were put on the web illegally and, most of all, against artists’ will.

They think nobody will record their dj-sets now and the tracks won't be on them,since now?

And also,if the tracks were in dj-sets in the past before their "choice", the quality was so low that they couldn't be playable surely..

Uitspraak van Krauser op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 16:52:

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We don’t want to encourage DJs who only play somebody else’s music anymore

Maybe there is who prefers to play and who prefers to produce..or not? what's the matter with this? or everybody since now MUST become producers too?

If you are against this ridicolous and stupid choice, DON'T BUY their releases legally (specially after the big fail of mad dog's "album") so maybe they will understand wtf are they doing! Fuck them!

Uitspraak van Nightmare Dj op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 18:37:

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i find it really stupid to announce the release of one or two tracks,4 months before...

It's not one or two tracks. We announce the whole release months before. Makes a big difference.
And now there are 20 tracks that will be released in the next months. And every 2/3 weeks there will be 3 new ones.
If a track is shitty it will get old sooner than 4 months. And people will not buy it, neverless what the policy is.
And anyway if people will not buy the tracks after 4 months...we don't care. We had fresh music to play at parties, that's what matter. Really not interested in music sales anymore.
That's why we don't do compilations lately but free downloadable podcast.

Uitspraak van CristianAoF op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 18:55:

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And anyway if people will not buy the tracks after 4 months...we don't care. We had fresh music to play at parties, that's what matter.

thats what i like. But the shitty thing if its a great track we have to wait for so long to play it ourself

Uitspraak van The Pacifier op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:00:

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thats what i like. But the shitty thing if its a great track we have to wait for so long to play it ourself

I think that's just the point where everyone is complaining about.
Especially for guys who don't produce their own songs, it's real hard to play some sets with fresh material.
And not only tracks which have been played for like 99^99 times in the last year.

Uitspraak van CristianAoF op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 18:55:

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It's not one or two tracks. We announce the whole release months before. Makes a big difference.

yes,and the whole release how many tracks contains? 2 or 3 maximum..

Uitspraak van CristianAoF op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 18:55:

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And every 2/3 weeks there will be 3 new ones.

ok, and what's the sense, of announcing the release 4 months before?? you better don't say anything till the day of the release.. like ALL the labels do now!

Uitspraak van CristianAoF op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 18:55:

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If a track is shitty it will get old sooner than 4 months. And people will not buy it, neverless what the policy is.
And anyway if people will not buy the tracks after 4 months...we don't care. We had fresh music to play at parties, that's what matter.

ok, but however you always have new fresh music to play in any case, what's the sense of announcing the release 4 months before and put that on youtube? this is the most stupid thing... because after 4 months a track becomes old if the people listens to it on youtube or on the podcasts... if you don't announce anything..if you keep the tracks for yourself, when is the time for the release for the people who wanna buy it, it will be a brand new track.. after 4 months it doesn't matter if is a good or crap track... it becomes already old if you listen to it everyday on youtube in high quality or if you put that on podcasts..

that's exactly the point Edje.
During the last years music changed drastically and record labels had to find new way to survive. Some of them throw parties, other just try other ways.
Making music (especially hardcore) it's a time and money consuming task. Normally i spend two weeks for a track, which means being busy full time. And what's the revenue now? nothing. After 30 minutes from the release everybody can have it, they give it a fast listen and then forget it. Or worse I go to play and the dj before me play my (or from traxtorm) tracks, leaving me without weapons.

We want a scene where when you call to play Art of Fighters,Mad Dog or whatever, they play their music. If you go to listen to Metallica what do you expect to hear? Them playing someone else track? I guess not.

Music is changed, i understand the complain of the djs who doesn't produce but i only have two option: the best one, start producing, we can help you! Or if you're too lazy, play the track after the four months. Or don't play it at all

Uitspraak van Nightmare Dj op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:13:

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if you don't announce anything..if you keep the tracks for yourself, when is the time for the release for the people who wanna buy it, it will be a brand new track..

That's again the point. We don't care about selling it. That's how label worked 10 years ago. Really old school thinking. Now the world is changed, internet is the key, not sales. After 4 months we'll have new exclusive tracks anyway.

Well... if you put it like that, it actually makes sense. Thanks for your response.

Another downside of dj cd players... when there was just vinyl, you just had to buy a great record, you can't copy vinyl on your pc haha.

It's just a way how you looking at this. The fans want to have a new track and not an 'old' track of 4 months. On this way it's like taking a baby his candy away. And he has to wait for 4 months to have is back. If you don't announce anything, the fans can't complain. Anyway, this is my vision

Cristian>> Ok,but it's not only a question of money or sales.. is also a question of interest.. sincerely i'm much more interested if i hear one track for the first time and i can buy it in the same moment or in some days, that with a track that now is 4 months old, and that became old before the release..

you said "sometimes i find dj's that play before me,that play traxtorm tracks and i remain without weapons"..ok,that's understandable but the solution is very easy to find.. when some promoter wanna book you, in the contract that the booking agency does for the party, your agency include the thing that the dj/dj's that play before you,can't play Traxtorm tracks, as many other booking agencies do.. is also a question of good sense and respect from the other dj's but if they play traxtorm tracks before your set, this could be a solution.

and also you said: "We want a scene where when you call to play Art of Fighters,Mad Dog or whatever, they play their music. If you go to listen to Metallica what do you expect to hear? Them playing someone else track? I guess not."

there is a BIG difference between dj's and bands/groups and excuse me but this one is a stupid confrontation.. the bands CAN'T play someone else songs (or only if are cover-bands) but for a dj is completely another thing..

Uitspraak van CristianAoF op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:25:

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That's again the point. We don't care about selling it. That's how label worked 10 years ago. Really old school thinking. Now the world is changed, internet is the key, not sales. After 4 months we'll have new exclusive tracks anyway.

I like the thinking behind this! Just make your music!

Uitspraak van DirkJan op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:34:

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And he has to wait for 4 months to have is back. If you don't announce anything, the fans can't complain. Anyway, this is my vision

True, but maybe it's also time people play more the old forgotten or never played tracks at party's in their mixes?!

Than again for some tracks 4 months is indeed long!

Uitspraak van Nightmare Dj op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:35:

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there is a BIG difference between dj's and bands/groups and excuse me but this one is a stupid confrontation.. the bands CAN'T play someone else songs (or only if are cover-bands) but for a dj is completely another thing..

This is just stupid. Any good band can play someone else' songs! Cristian is very right in pointing it out like this. The only thing is that the traxtorm dj's will play their own tracks, with some other traxtorm tracks. If you know this, it is your choice to book an artist or not. Or as a visitor; to see a dj or not.

Uitspraak van Nightmare Dj op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:35:

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sometimes i find dj's that play before me,that play traxtorm tracks and i remain without weapons"

I thougth that already was an unwritten rule in the scene...

Uitspraak van CristianAoF op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:21:

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the best one, start producing, we can help you!

Bam! That's exactly the attitude the hardcorescene needs at the moment. It's very hard to start producing hardcore. If Traxtorm has this statement, let the starting producers know. I have read your tutorials and they are a good way to understand hardcore and the way the current producers think, we need more of that stuff. Just like the vids by MoH. But the scene needs some more openness.

Uitspraak van Nightmare Dj op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:35:

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there is a BIG difference between dj's and bands/groups and excuse me but this one is a stupid confrontation.. the bands CAN'T play someone else songs (or only if are cover-bands) but for a dj is completely another thing..

in my vision it was another thing. It's time to move on. Rules are meant to be broken.

Uitspraak van Nightmare Dj op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:35:

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Ok,but it's not only a question of money or sales.. is also a question of interest.. sincerely i'm much more interested if i hear one track for the first time and i can buy it in the same moment or in some days, that with a track that now is 4 months old, and that became old before the release..

but the question is: why you want the track?
1) To listen to it: Just download a podcast, it's like having a compilation cd, almost no difference.
2) To play it: sorry, you got to wait. Or get angry and start producing. I try to reply to everybody asking for advices.

Uitspraak van Dark Byte op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:41:

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It's very hard to start producing hardcore

I think it's also hard to keep producing hardcore... if you know what i mean. Especially for the so-called "B-Class" producers among us ( and yes, i consider myself as one of them ) it's pretty hard to get the quality that's needed in hardcore these days.

Uitspraak van Dark Byte op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:41:

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It's very hard to start producing hardcore. If Traxtorm has this statement, let the starting producers know. I

We're a small label with few people working on it. We were really busy with the new organization of the work, but we definetly look after new talents and projects. Months ago i asked people to send me demos, and there's few of them that i've spotted out and following directly.
What hardcore needs now is an evolution of style, fresh ideas, which rather can came from a new talent or a talented already known producer (look at what Amnesys or Ophidian is doing now)

Uitspraak van Pascal [ Outrage ] op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:47:

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I think it's also hard to keep producing hardcore... if you know what i mean. Especially for the so-called "B-Class" producers among us ( and yes, i consider myself as one of them ) it's pretty hard to get the quality that's needed in hardcore these days.

I completely know what you mean! I think it's kinda odd you are still struggling with this, because you are way more experienced (wouldn't consider you a B-class producer) than me.

Uitspraak van Megalodon || Opperstamper op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:39:

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This is just stupid. Any good band can play someone else' songs!

yes ok, but a party,a festival,a rave..it's not and it will never be like a concert of one band..the dj's make another work..always with music,but it's completely another thing from the live-bands.. you wanna play your music also as a dj?
ok, just do live-acts and not dj-sets...a dj-sets allows to play someone else music,a live-act not..

Uitspraak van Dark Byte op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:49:

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because you are way more experienced (wouldn't consider you a B-class producer) than me.

That doesn't make him an A artist, it makes you a C or D artist

Uitspraak van Nightmare Dj op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:51:

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you wanna play your music also as a dj?
ok, just do live-acts and not dj-sets...a dj-sets allows to play someone else music,a live-act not..

But that's not the point here, right?
It's about OTHER DJs playing your tracks.

Uitspraak van Dark Byte op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:49:

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I think it's kinda odd you are still struggling with this

I got a 40 hr job so i make music during the evening and weekends. With that, i practically never got any help with it ( only 1 or 2 times ) and as a producer without much time, i need at least 1 release in a year or the booking-rate will go downwards.

Uitspraak van CristianAoF op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:42:

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but the question is: why you want the track?
1) To listen to it: Just download a podcast, it's like having a compilation cd, almost no difference.
2) To play it: sorry, you got to wait. Or get angry and start producing. I try to reply to everybody asking for advices.

there can be people who simply wanna listen to the track in full lenght, also if they don't have to play, or are not dj's..

i'm not talking about me,because my interest could be in playing it as a dj, (but you know that sincerely your (as traxtorm) latest release are not my kind of shit anymore (or at the 70%) but i find really stupid to announce the release 4 months before.. in my opinion it was much better don't say anything, and announce them only 15 days before or less, till the release date...like all other labels do.. 4 months later,a track is already old and has lost his "interest"

Uitspraak van Imil op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:53:

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But that's not the point here, right?
It's about OTHER DJs playing your tracks.

ok and what's the matter with this?

then,in the case that one traxtorm dj play in the night, is a question of respect and good sense from the other dj's, don't play traxtorm tracks before the traxtorm artist plays.. as Pascal said it's one of the unwritten laws of the scene...also if not everyone knows it..

Of course. That's a compromise. People who wanna listen the full lenght track can't do it. But it's impossible to make everyone happy. We took a choice, we belive it's right for us and we got already results that prove our point.
We clearly knew that a LOT of people will be pissed off, but we decided to pay this price.

Uitspraak van Pascal [ Outrage ] op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:58:

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I got a 40 hr job so i make music during the evening and weekends. With that, i practically never got any help with it ( only 1 or 2 times ) and as a producer without much time, i need at least 1 release in a year or the booking-rate will go downwards.

I used to be in the same situation aswell till 2008. Then I made the move. It wasn't easy at all. Focus on music when you came home broken after the "regular" job. But still, passion can make you do a lot of things! And thanks god I still have it!

Uitspraak van Pascal [ Outrage ] op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:41:

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I thougth that already was an unwritten rule in the scene...

No, only for your own tracks! Not from your label! That's why lately many dj sets don't have a real good tracklist that is building up! Everything glued together and a like.

Topic is a life and kicking!

Uitspraak van CristianAoF op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 20:06:

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But still, passion can make you do a lot of things! And thanks god I still have it!

Believe me... The passion is still there and i know i can make a decent track, but it's still the quality that nails me. And then you should know that after listening your brand new track a couple of times, you become a bit of tone-deaf ( I got that every time ) and all you hear is a good track and you can't lay your finger on the faulty spots, if you know what i mean.

That's why it's important to be in a team. In traxtorm we help each others with advices and we're totally honest with each other. So if I do something really shitty I know for sure that someone will stop be before going too far. That's the strenght we have.

Uitspraak van CristianAoF op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 19:47:

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We were really busy with the new organization of the work, but we definetly look after new talents and projects.

As I read it, you do want to help, but does that also mean you are willing to attract people from other countries to your label or is that still limited to Italian producers, and you'll only help foreigners? Because I always thought you were a Italian-only label.

Btw, is hardcore that hard to produce in opposite of something like hardstyle? A label like Fusion that switched to digital-only a while back releases almost like once a week now, even though they're a bit bigger then you. But in hardcore, even if they are going digital, it still takes a loooong long time between releases to appear, with you, and also with something like Enzyme. Is that because of the quality or is that some decision you, as a label, made?

Uitspraak van CristianAoF op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 20:18:

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That's why it's important to be in a team.

And that is a thing that not everyone has, unfortunatly.

we were pretty slow in the past, but lately we're releasing 2 or 3 tracks every 2/3 weeks. Also doing an EP with 3 tracks instead of 2 take a little more time, but apart rare cases, we'll keep doing 3 trackers, cause a vinyl with 2 track is not really fair. (yes, we'll keep doing vinyl as soon as we can, at least for a couple of years)
But anyway i think the reasons are in the music itself. Often (but not always) in hardstyle you recycle the same kick for 4/5 tracks. Saves time, but i'm not gonna do that. I did it with Symphony of the dead and I felt guilty for months. Our policy was and it will also be to move forward, not being a factory making the same music over over again.
Reason why in the same label the style of music range from Aof to Unexist to Mad Dog to Amnesys. Diversity. And that needs time.

I'm glad to see this topic finally has some serious discussion going on again in stead of the bullshit that has been flooding through this thread for months.

I have to admit that the way Cristian puts it makes a lot of sense. And I think the huge amount of criticsim on this policy emerged because people didn't get this explanation in the first place. They just saw release after release popping up on the Sonicsolution site, yet they'd have to wait several months before they could actually buy the tracks themselves. This was completely unlike they are used to because, in some way, 'usually' an uploaded preview means the track will be available in the shops a few weeks later. And suddenly, we have to wait 4 months before a track is released.

So yeah, we just have to adjust our way of awaiting releases. Maybe that's the whole problem: we now get teased 4 months before the actual release of an EP. And if there's a track on it that you really really really like, you still have 4 months of waiting in front of you before you can actually put it on your iPod or use it in your own mixes. I understand the argument of the free podcasts which contain new tracks as well, but personally I enjoy a new track way more when I can listen to it in full, 320 kbs sound than in a mixed podcast which usually has a bit lower sound quality as well. I'm not saying that podcast option is not a logical step, it's just that for me it's not a solution to satisfy me untill I can buy the track in the webshop. But that's my problem, not Traxtorm's.

A question for Cristian: a while back I saw this announcement on your Facebook about giving away that in-progress-track that got leaked, 'Down With The' (sucks that this happened, even the title wasn't finished). Why did you decide to give it away for free if the track isn't even finished? Or are you actually finishing it and then releasing it for free?

Uitspraak van CristianAoF op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 20:45:

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(yes, we'll keep doing vinyl as soon as we can, at least for a couple of years)

Respect!

Uitspraak van CristianAoF op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 20:45:

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Diversity

That´s what we like.
time we take for granted as it stands for quality and if there is so much difference in a track than it does not matter to me that the releases are a bit slower.

Uitspraak van .Wendel op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 20:37:

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and also with something like Enzyme

I guess that's because they still release everything on vinyl, when Enzyme sooner or later decides to stop releasing all there releases on vinyl, they also have a possibility to release faster.

Uitspraak van Reptoid op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 20:59:

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I guess that's because they still release everything on vinyl, when Enzyme sooner or later decides to stop releasing all there releases on vinyl, they also have a possibility to release faster.

TTM is now releasing in high tempo since they stopped releasing vinyls.

Uitspraak van Krauser op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 20:48:

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A question for Cristian: a while back I saw this announcement on your Facebook about giving away that in-progress-track that got leaked, 'Down With The' (sucks that this happened, even the title wasn't finished). Why did you decide to give it away for free if the track isn't even finished? Or are you actually finishing it and then releasing it for free?

Thanks for understanding our point.
Down with the... You're touching a bad point. That track have a long story, the melody of symphony of the dead & god's fury comes out from the test runned around "down with the".
My plan is to finish it. Weak point is that is really old to me now and what I'm releasing in the future will be different than that. I don't want to have people thinking that i'm still doing that kind of music.
Anyway, I've something more important now to finish, then i'll put some effort in it and make it free.

Ah well some DJ's are just quite eager to play the new Traxtorm tracks, just take it as a compliment and continue as planned, sure enough waiting 4 months for a nice track/album sucks but it has its reasons so its understandable if you know what is going on in the scene(decreasing music purchases, etc). By the way, nice new Meccano Twins release Cristian

Uitspraak van Pascal [ Outrage ] op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 20:39:

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And that is a thing that not everyone has, unfortunatly.

thats a thing most of us dont have i think.
if nobody tells u whats sounds wrong or right or what are the thing u have to keep in mind. you keep making the same mistakes.

for example, i only have 1 friend who can really listin to my music, and tell me what is wrong or right.
i know u can find good feedback on forums and that kind of stuff but thats not personal enough for me.
u never know if people dont mix up their own taste with youre quality.

That's why labels still exist and "selfmade" artist are not so many. The reason to be in a label is to have someone pointing out the mistake you make.

Uitspraak van CristianAoF op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 21:34:

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The reason to be in a label is to have someone pointing out the mistake you make.

I agree that a label should do that for an artist, but i know it doesn't always happen that way...

Uitspraak van Krauser op donderdag 5 mei 2011 om 20:48:

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I'm glad to see this topic finally has some serious discussion going on again in stead of the bullshit that has been flooding through this thread for months.

Wow yeah, it seems that I've missed something here... Got a few pages of reading to do for catching up